Tuesday, August 26, 2008

Culture Clash

Last Friday my office held its annual picnic. You know what that is - the annual opportunity to spend quality time with the people you already spend more time with than you do with your family, except you have to bring food and you get a sunburn and mosquito bites. Here's some of the food:

For the second year in a row, we held our picnic at Pohick Bay Regional Park, a very nice, shady location near the water with plenty of picnic tables, room for a volleyball net and horseshoe pit, nearby toilets (after age 50, you look for that first), and a really spectacular new, multifaceted climbing gym for the kids.

We had the usual loud, raucous picnic. It was a beautiful day, full-contact volleyball and tug-of-war were played, the water balloon toss was as wet as ever, and a grand time was had by all.

But there was one incident that made me think a little bit about the clash of cultures in modern-day America.

Late in the morning, another group arrived at the park and set up a picnic in the area adjacent to ours. These people were obviously Muslims, as the women were all dressed from head to foot in long, black robes and headscarves (in spite of temperatures in the mid-80's). They kept to themselves and were very quiet in contrast to our happily hysterical antics. The incident that got my attention, though, happened late in the day when I walked over to the children's climbing gym to deliver a message to one of the ladies of our group, who was supervising her child at play. As I approached the gym, three or four young girls from the Muslim group - all easily distinguished by their dark robes and headscarves - immediately stopped playing and returned to their tables.

I don't think I looked particularly threatening, and I never made any attempt to talk to, much less look at them, but somehow they seemed to view me as - if not a threat, then at least as an undesirable interloper. I know from my study that Muslims are enjoined, either by the Koran or by the hadiths (things Mohammed and his friends supposedly said and did) to never mingle or make friends with infidels, because we'll pollute their pure religion, and I also know that Muslim women are supposed to be "modest" and to avoid any contact with men to whom they are not related. But to see children having fun break it off and leave simply because I walked up to speak with someone else sent me a powerful message. That message was: we don't want to have anything to do with you.

Perhaps I'm overreacting, but I don't think so. People used to come to this country because they wanted to be Americans and to enjoy the freedoms and opportunities it offered. Now, Muslims come and want only to remain in their tight little communities, interested only in maintaining their medieval beliefs and imposing them on everyone else. We are, after all, only infidels, and the Koran says it's all right to kill or enslave us if we don't choose to see the peaceful Islamic light.

They've done a marvelous job of screwing up the Middle East. I hope we don't allow them the opportunity to screw up America as well.

And it's a shame that I had to think about this in the context of a happy summer picnic.

Have a good day. More thoughts tomorrow.

Bilbo

18 comments:

The Mistress of the Dark said...

Ill have a burger please :)

Amanda said...

Initially, I was tempted to say "Don't be too offended" because thats the way the women and children have been indoctrinated to behave. But, I can also see your point of view to have people come to your country only to avoid the people who "welcomed" them in the first place.

I have an experience that is the opposite of what you had. In Kuala Lumpur last year, a Muslim lady in one of those black robes literally jumped at me an Aaron. My immediate reaction was "OMG! What is she doing?" I wasn't having good thoughts. But then I found out that she "jumped" from excitement from seeing Aaron. She wanted to talk to him awhile because her husband had forced her to leave her own little son behind in Saudi Arabia. She was the friendly one and I was the one that took it the wrong way.

Gilahi said...

This isn't strictly a Muslim phenomenon. When I was in college, I met a young lady, we chatted and laughed, there was obvious chemistry. I asked her out and she turned me down. Turns out that she was Jewish and only dated Jews. I told a friend that I had no intention of marrying her, I just wanted to go out. Didn't matter. This was in the '70s. Didja even see "Guess Who's Coming To Dinner"? Both the white and the black fathers had a very difficult time accepting a mixed couple. There is absolutely culture clash, and I suspect there always will be, but it's certainly not limited to one race, color, or religion.

lacochran said...

Interesting that you take one small experience where you have no information except your perceptions and expand that to a huge group of people. I'd suggest this is a bad habit.

Rhonda said...

Ouch on the comment above.

Bilbo said...

Andrea - sorry, they're all gone.

Amanda - good point. See my other comments below.

Gilahi - your point is well taken; however, in most cases, the issue is one of individual or family preference and custom. The issue with Islam is that the Koran (which they maintain is the absolute word of God, true in every detail) and tradition really do enjoin them from mingling with "infidels." That can make it hard for everyone to get along.

lacochran - I hear what you're saying, but it really does go beyond immediate perceptions. I try - believe it or not - not to jump to conclusions based on limited information. I'm basically a pretty easy-going fellow who gets along with most everybody. But I have to admit that I was taken aback in this instance, and based on what I already know, I made an interpretation. By the way, I just hit "send" on a lengthy e-mail to you carrying on our earlier discussion on race relations...

Rhonda - welcome! I think this may be your first visit, and just in time to stumble into lacochran's shot across my virtual bow. Hope you'll be back again.

lacegem said...

I hear what you're saying dude, but you just have to charge it to experience. There is always two sides to a story. We don't know what that woman was thinking or why she reacted the way she did. She could be reacting like that because of the present situation our country is in, war with Iraq. I'm sure since your obviously the more educated and learned person that you can look back at this and just shrug your shoulders. You know, I've lived in the Middle East before and you don't see me posting comments about Muslims. I have to agree with one fellow blogger. You can't put an entire race in a closet due to the actions of one. We're better than that, right? PEACE.

Mike said...

I've got a couple of days of catching up on reading to do. Looks like you been stirrin' up some stuff here.

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately, Bilbo's closest anonymous buddy must back Bilbo 100% in this case. Islam is not merely a religion; it is a religion in which was fundamentally spread by physical conquest and subjugation. Americans, raised from birth in not only religious toleration, but in belief in religious equality, find it hard to understand a religion that fundamentally rejects other religions. There was a time about 20 years ago when Christians and Jews were considered "people of the book" and were cut a break. Somehow that position disappeared over the last twenty years.

Read the Koran, and then see what you think.

lacochran said...

Here's my problem with you--and I fully acknowledge that it's my problem because I'm (currently) choosing to read your stuff. My problem is that you take an incident (no problem), try your best to interpret it (no problem), and then generalize it to a whole group of people (big problem.)



Saying "all muslims are ___" which you do when you say "Muslims come and want only..." is absurd. As if all Muslims do anything. It makes as much sense as saying "All bloggers are ___". Aside from taking part in blogging, you can't say all bloggers are in any way the same.

There are all kinds of Muslims.

You're way up the ladder of inference. All you know is what behavior you saw.

Maybe she didn't want to be around you because you smelled funny. Just as reasonable an assumption and based on almost as much data. And a delightfully incendiary assumption, too.

See how easy it is to take an argument in the wrong direction, Smelly?

Bilbo said...

Mike - it's what I do best!

Anonymous - Good to hear from you again.

lacochran - Sorry there's a problem. I did consider your suggestion about smelling funny, and it could be right. The incident took place around 3 in the afternoon on a hot day, and I'd been at the park picnicking since about 10 AM, so it's possible that I was getting a bit gamy. But since no one else was avoiding me, I think I can discount that explanation. Good try, though.

lacochran said...

Bilbo: First, just because people don't tell you you smell, or make obvious retreats, doesn't mean you don't smell.

Second, that's just one of an infinite number of possibilities. It's an example.

Finally, I'm suggesting you chose the interpretation that supported your views. Try picking one of the others next time. It may change your world.

Doubt it, but there's always hope.

Bilbo said...

Drat...that's what I get for not turning the Tongue In Cheek Warning Light on...

lacegem said...

First of all I didn't realize that when I posted a comment here that I'm supposed to have a defense attorney, (ha,ha,ha). Anyway, I don't have a problem with anyone including Bilbo. Personally I like Bilbo. (I'll talk to you later...) My biggest pet peeve would be people that stereotype or generalize. With regards to Anonymous comments, I just want to say shall we examine that once more? When he said that Islam is not merely a religion and is fundamentally spread through physical conquest & subjugation, I want to say what about christianity? Lets go back & explore christianity's history. I believe christians fought holy wars which they called "Crusades". This is when the Muslims came up with their version & called it "Jihad". Remember King Richard, the "lion heart", & the Templar Knights. They all fought in the name of God. Then there's Hernando Cortes'who wiped out the Aztec civilization to spread christianity. Don't forget about Christopher Columbus, Magellan etc... Need I say more. They all just wanted to tame the savages by introducing christianity but in reality it was about conquest, which will bring them instant fame & fortune. Religion was just a scapegoat, that's nothing new. I just want to say that before we start throwing stones we really should look in the mirror first.

Bilbo said...

Lacegem - thanks for your comments. Believe it or not, things aren't always this testy around my blog...but lately lacochran and I have just kept pushing each other's buttons. It may seem odd, but I think the two of us actually agree on most fundamental things...we just tend to approach things from different points of view. If you haven't read her blog, do - it's great. As far as your comments about looking in the mirror, you are correct - we need to recognize past ills and work to improve the future. But I think your historical timeline is a bit off...the Islamic concept of jihad, or holy war, was not a result of the Crusades, but is a fundamental Islamic tenet, enshrined in the Koran. Many people point to the Crusades as the reason why many radical Muslims act as they do today. But remember this: the last Crusade took place in the 1200's...but radical Islamists are committing suicide bombings every day. Cortez, De Soto, Columbus, and others were all bad people by the standards of the year 2008...but they were heroes in their own time. I have a lot more thoughts on religion (and if you read back far enough in my blog, you'll find many of them), but a full dissertation is too long for one comment. Again, thanks for your time in commenting. I don't expect - or want - everyone to agree with me. But I want everyone to think beyond the politically correct platitudes of 2008. Welcome to my blog!

Moose said...

Bilbo,
I doubt there is any chance that LalochRan will ever give consideration to your arguments or observations. I consider myself a liberal, but it sounds like LalochRan has fallen prey to what I can only describe as “over-academization.” She must have read way too many books that have convinced her that to critically think about race/gender/religious issues is to engage in hateful behavior. She obviously feels that we must, as a society, accept all behavior, even if that behavior could have negative societal effects. For instance, I’m sure she would argue that “gangster rap” is a meaningful expression of the black inner-city experience and she would dismiss any negative consequences or stereotypes that are associated with listening to this type of music. If I were to point out that gangers rap spreads words of hate and promotes violence, she would point her finger at me and call me a simple-minded racist.

I would guess that, since her arguments have now sunk quite low (e.g., pointing her finger at you and calling you “smelly”), it’s quite likely that she’s simply not as intelligent as she thinks she is. I’d guess she received a Bachelor of Arts degree at a local college and took a few too many “Society and the Other”-type classes. I wanted to write because I don’t want you, Bilbo, to feel badly that she seems to keep missing the point of your blogs; I doubt that she is smart enough to understand your writing. People like her get an ego-boost by convincing themselves that they are better than others because they are so “accepting” and “tolerant” and “open-minded.” Lalochran totally misses the point that this so-called tolerance has resulted in a society that values the individual over the common good, and this so-called tolerance is currently ripping apart the fabric of our American society.

It’s a real shame that it there seems to be an increase in the number of individuals who have complete disregard for society or their place in it. These are the folks who cut into lines, drop out of school, refuse to work, have children out of wedlock, or who otherwise disrespect their personal obligation to be a productive member of the society they want to live in. These are also frequently the folks who feel that someone else “owes them a living,” and who feel that the freedoms they are afforded in America are a God-given right, rather than a wonderful opportunity. The bigger shame, though, is that these types of people are supported by pseudo-intellectuals like Lalochlan, who should know better. These supportive, pseudo-intellectuals act as road-blocks to the kind of critical thought and self-reflection in which our country must engage if we want to create opportunities for our future-generations to thrive.

Lalochran…please hear this and really think about it: YOUR VALIDATATION OF THE INDIVIDUAL OVER THE GREATER GOOD IS DESTRUCTIVE TO EVERYONE’S FUTURE.
--Moose

Gilahi said...

So, Bilbo, at what point do you just delete this blog entry? :-)

And I can see why Moose is such an ardent supporter. He/she takes 3 comments on a blog and works up a complete biography and a psychological profile on the person, and then works up a real lather and trashes the person based on it. It's truly the most specious thing I've seen on this or any other blog.

FWIW, I didn't see anything at all about the "validatation [sic] of the individual over the greater good" or any of the other biographical/psychological items that Moose invented out of whole cloth and then went into a tizzy over. All I saw was a comment that suggested that there might have been some reason other than the yours for the behavior that you observed.

If anything, I think this is EXACTLY the sort of thing that lacochran mentioned. Moose chose (invented) an entire interpretation to support Moose's own views.

Wow.

Bilbo said...

Okay, children - Gilahi is right. Please do not offer any more comments on this post. I know that there are probably lots of other people who will want to comment, but please save your caustic vituperation until next week, when I will revisit this issue with more detail and context which will - I hope - make sure we all understand what I originally said. Hang in there.